Posts by Pete Zahut

21

There is a NEW Songbook?!

i am not talking about the one that the org came out with in 2010. i am talking about a new one that just came out.

it is completely different or is it just the 135 songs from the 2010 songbook plus the 16 that they have rolled out since then?

my head is spinning!.

Pete Zahut

The New Song book is here !! The new song book is here !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rTcfKfXwqo

49

How do you categorise the Society - Cult or High control religion

by UnshackleTheChains in

i have often seen many categorise the organisation in different ways.

some say cult, some say high control religion.

cult or high control religion?.

I think JW's were a cult in the beginning seeing as how they were founded by a man and were too new to be accepted by the general population as a full on religion. Those who have a complaint against JW's tend to use the term cult because it has a negative connotation in our society and using that word is sort of an intellectual way to engage in name calling.

As far as I can see, there is no specific line of demarcation between a religion and a cult. To me, JW's are a religion with cult like overtones. When it comes down to it, I suppose Jesus was viewed by some as a Cult Leader at one point and Christians were his Cult. Most religions were probably cults at one time until their warped views eventually became more mainstream. They all have a degree of hold over their members and strive to ensure that they all hold the same beliefs and are moving in the same direction.

People who feel left out or misunderstood by the general population for some reason, tend to be attracted to unpopular or off beat religions like JW's. Like anyone else, they are on some level, looking for answers to unanswerable questions but they don't fit into the already existing religions. They feel extra virtuous by being part of something that is looked upon as odd or a bit crazy by others. I know some JW's who would be utterly disappointed if JW's were ever thought of anything but offbeat and they very much dislike the recent changes that make their once quirky religion, more mainstream.

JW's raise their children in the religion and the children often feel alienated from the general population like their parents did, but unlike their parents, it's because of the religion itself. The parents as well as the children are caught up in the religion because of it's cult like aspects. Most if not all of these cult like aspects come from the man made rules and policies rather than from the actual doctrines themselves. There is limited information about the inner workings of the organization and there is a price to be paid if one leaves.

Anyway....rambling thoughts but that's my take on JW's. If I had to choose just one of the terms offered to describe JW's I'd have to go with "High Control Group".

26

Data for Partakers from 1935-2016. Latest number wasn´t this high since 1954!

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

i gathered the data for the memorial partakers every year since 1935 (the first year they had data) until now.. the latest figures haven't been that high since 1954!.

this stat looks very bad in watchtower land because the decreasing # of partakers was given, for decades, as proof that the end was near!.

.

Pete Zahut

It would be interesting to see which countries had an increase of partakers. I suspect that all the recent growth in 3rd world countries may have something to do with the uptick in partakers overall.

My experience is that folks from these countries often are quite enthusiastic but because of the cultural differences between their world and the folks in New York, they don't quite "get" or have a full sense of what they're into with this strange western religion. On the other hand, those in western countries aren't as impressed by the words of these western leaders as they once were and less of them are partaking and are being replaced by partakers from 3rd world countries.

(Just a guess)

21

There is a NEW Songbook?!

by My Name is of No Consequence in

i am not talking about the one that the org came out with in 2010. i am talking about a new one that just came out.

it is completely different or is it just the 135 songs from the 2010 songbook plus the 16 that they have rolled out since then?

my head is spinning!.

Pete Zahut

As an aside....Churches sing Hymns as part of their services....JW's who despise the customs of Christendom and pride themselves for being different, also sing Hymns disguised as "Kingdom Songs" during their services...oops...I mean meetings.

Like Christendom, they also use these songs during funeral/memorials and when a Bride marches down the aisle in her white dress during a wedding at their Church....oops I mean Kingdom Hall.

32

Finally, after almost 3 years, they want to visit with me

by StarTrekAngel in

so i ended up going to the meeting yesterday.

i have been absent for almost 2 months.

my wife was also absent as long but mostly out of chance.

Pete Zahut

English Standard Version (ESV)1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

"Always remember what 1 Cor 10:13 says. Jehovah would never test you beyond what you can handle."

Despite what your friend may think, you are not being tested by Jehovah...this scripture he quoted points out that there are temptations in life and that god will help you to escape temptation. It does not say in this scripture that he is the one tempting you or that he tests us.

32

Finally, after almost 3 years, they want to visit with me

by StarTrekAngel in

so i ended up going to the meeting yesterday.

i have been absent for almost 2 months.

my wife was also absent as long but mostly out of chance.

Pete Zahut

Maybe they want to sign you up for some multi level marketing scheme they've gotten involved with.

Seriously though....it took a little over 3 years for anyone to come looking for us after our last meeting. 25+years of regular attendance and participation and socializing and raising our kids and no one cared. The Circuit Overseer who called on us with one of my old Elder friends, was shocked that this happened.

He said, " You haven't been at the meetings lately...we're concerned " . I said "My last meeting was the Memorial of 2008. Here it is almost 2012 and this is the first time anyone came to check on us. Not even so much as a phone call after over 25 years of attending that Congregation ". The look he shot toward that Elder friend of mine, could have stopped time. HA !

I'm not sure from your post if you been gone for 3 years or two months but either way, I suppose in view of my experience, it's nice that someone is making the effort.

Not to be overly cynical but if there hasn't been meeting attendance or field service reported, they can count their time by calling on you, face to face or on the phone. In person, they could be there 4 or 5 hours depending on how talkative you are, which for them would be preferable to knocking on doors. They may even be able to study with you for a period of time.

As JW's, I'm sure on some level they are concerned about your "spirituality" or at least have been convinced that it's their duty to be concerned about your "spirituality" but if you do visit with them face to face, you might end up saying too much or drawing some kind of line in the sand. It might be better to avoid them altogether.

6

A jw thought trap

by purrpurr in

i've been watching louis therouxs documentary about scientology.

one of the thought traps they createn in people is that they make them belive that all good things come from following the doctrines correctly and all bad things come from not doing so.

and in this way it becomes a thought trap where the person is self regulated mentally by trying ever harder to be more indoctrinated.

Pete Zahut

I always thought of what you described as a "Thought Trap", more as being Superstitious.

As a JW there was always an ominous significance to most everything one did. Missing a meeting or field service could result in things going wrong in ones personal life. Even if one was regular at meetings or in service there was a concern that you weren't participating enough or weren't doing it with the proper "heart condition". When an earthquake happens in an area, magically the only ones who weren't hurt were the ones who were at the meeting.

Thought trap or Superstition....the end result is the same.

13

First time back in a KH in 8 months

by Normalfulla in

so... one of my employees is a miserable servant and was giving the pt and invited me to come knowing full well i was faded out, i go along cos i respect him and thought why not, i must admit i was a little nervous headed back there (a neighboring hall not my old one) i saw alot of familiar faces and some old friends who were aware of my fade, all so pleased to see me at a meeting again and i can sum up how i felt about the experience like this.. .

have you ever been to a party and been the only sober person there and are totally aware of the ridiculous things said and going on?

that's what it felt like except the party would have been more fun of course,... all these good people, drunk off their heads on wt propaganda and false hopes, the irony was the talk was titled "does your life have meaning?".

Pete Zahut

Have You ever been to a party and been the only sober person there and are totally aware of the ridiculous things said and going on? That's what it felt like except the party would have been more fun of course,... all these good people, drunk off their heads on WT propaganda and false hopes, the irony was the talk was titled "does your life have meaning?".

The only sober person at a party.....the perfect description of how it feel to attend a meetings again.

32

Irregular to meetings, can I partake in memorial?

by Squekylive in

hi friends .

i don't believe in jw doctrines anymore but because of family i have to be a jw for now.. i am not regular to meetings, and don't answer in meeting, but i report some hours so i remain as active jw now.. .

congregation knows that i am not spiritual and i don't talk to people and i don't care what they think about me.. now, i believe it's important to observe lord's supper as a christian as per john 6:53, so in the coming memorial if i attend i want to partake in the communion,.. i believe it is a sin to pass the bread and wine inspite of knowing it's flesh and blood of jesus.. it's like rejecting jesus.. so i want to partake.. but i dont consider i am anointed etc.

Pete Zahut

When the bread and wine comes around, go ahead and partake of it if you want to but be prepared to be asked about it and be prepared to tell them just what you've said here.

Depending upon whether or not you're baptized and what else you tell them and upon how " by the book" your Elders are, there could be further action taken that would change the course of your life in terms of friends and family.

It seems to me that whether or not you agree with them, JW's should be free to conduct the religious services that take place within their own walls, as they see fit and those in attendance should be respectful of their ceremony. If you think that the way JW's handle the memorial is "sinful" or inappropriate, why attend it or participate in it by partaking?

Are you really that concerned about sticking up for Jesus or you more interested in making some kind of point? If you are interested in showing respect for Jesus death and feel the need to partake in a communion, why not go somewhere else where they do it in a manner you approve of and avoid all the unnecessary brew-haw that is sure to ensue with the JW's ? I can assure you that any point you are trying to make, will be lost on them and will come around to bite you in the backside, instead.

53

My Dad wants to study with me

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

so my parents continue to pester me about getting baptized.

the other day my dad told me that i was old enough to make a decision, and was wondering why i wasn't ready (assembly is in a few weeks) so i told him calmly that i have many doubts and if i were to get baptized it has to be 100 percent my idea.

he was a little annoyed by this, and now wants to study the "is there a creator that cares about you" book (which is complete bs) with me.

Pete Zahut

Hi Blackwolf,

I can only evaluate your situation by the words you use and I see a lot of black and white thinking going on. It might be good to review how you are looking at this situation to make sure that you aren't dramatizing anything. (not saying that you are)

His wanting to study with me wasn't really a question, I doubt we will get through the whole book anyways. I know he is just doing it for his ego,

Or possibly wanting to study with out out of his natural sense of duty toward you as a JW father ? That is sometimes the only way fathers know how to express their love for their Children. It may not be the lovey-dovey way you see in the movies but at least it's something.

he normally ignores me anyway. I've never been very close to my dad (he works a lot plus elder duties), but I still love him. It feels bad disappointing my parents, even though I really hate them sometimes.

Ignoring someone is intentional. Perhaps your father is simply not thinking to seek you out as much he could. Hate is a pretty strong emotion....perhaps what you mean is that you get really aggravated with your parents at times.

However, my little sister has. She has always done exactly what was expected and got baptized when she was 11,

Your sister may very well be felling the same things you are but because of her personality type and age, she has a strong need to please others, this may change as she gets older especially if she has you to pave the way. That's one of the draw backs with being the oldest.

now that I am nearly 18 and everyone else my age is baptized people are suspicious. I have no friends and people treat me like an outcast.

Do you really have no friends or is that belief making it difficult for you to be a friend...are you sending unfriendly vibes? Exactly how are people treating you like an outcast? Having others treat you as a true outcast is a pretty extreme situation to be in. Are they jeering at you and casting stones to make you run away or are they simply not including you or rushing up to greet you because they get the sense that you have drawn away and wouldn't respond well toward them if they did? (again..Just asking..not saying it's so)

I know that my dad thinks he is doing what is best for me, but in reality it just makes my life feel so worthless.

You are the one who decides how you feel, not your Dad. You can choose to feel worthless or you can choose to realize that on some level your Dad loves you but he is operating under a set of guidelines that doesn't quite fit what you want for your life. As far as I can determine, he's not saying anything about your literal worth as a person. He simply wants you to be a certain way so that HE feels more assured about your direction and about HIS worth as a JW father and HIS fear that HEis somehow failing you. Being a father is a pretty thankless job sometimes. You're a bad guy for wanting your kids to do what you think is best for them and you're a bad guy for letting them do as they please and possibly learn things the hard way. You have to figure out and accommodate the personality types of each of your kids and yet somehow deal with each one of them equally in every circumstance without causing them to resent you.

Perhaps if you try to soften the language you are using in your head in regard to your situation, it will be more bearable for you. This doesn't mean giving up your resolve, it means taking the emotion out of the equation and looking at the facts from the point of view of everyone else involved to determine if your circumstances are literally and truly as dire as they seem, or if they just feel that way.

It sounds like you've decided to go ahead with your study with him. As I said in m y earlier post, just ask him questions and listen to his answers. Remember,being honest doesn't mean you have to be harsh or confrontational. You can simply listen to his answers, acknowledge that you understand what he said and then point out what your understanding is and leave it at that. My hope is that he will come to understand that you are not being rebellious but are acting out of sound reasoning.